The distinguished couture hattist Susie Hopkins describes how she became entranced by hats while an art student in Vienna. After becoming a Master in Austria she moved to a Paris fashion house as their creative designer. Her subsequent career in London has included teaching at the London College of Fashion. Susie is not only a gifted designer and maker but an expert in creating bespoke hats for weddings and special occasions. This requires high levels of interpersonal skill, and her expertise has interesting parallels with my own experience as a clinician working with the complex family relationships and tensions of my patients. In this podcast we explore similarities and differences between our perspectives.